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Pudge Wars Item Discussion

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Are items too imbalanced?

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Pudge Wars Item Discussion

Post by Siraraz on 04/05/12, 03:30 pm

I think much of the gameplay relies heavily on items (such as Techies Barrel and Strygwyr's Claws). There isn't as much usage of meat hook as there should be because of this reason. That is, the map isn't orientated around the Meat Hook ability as much. So, I have two questions to ask:

1. Do you think Pudge Wars is fine with the current style of gameplay?
2. Do you think Pudge Wars items should be designed to be integral (or core) to the gameplay and heavily used?

The map lategame is very hard to play because of fast and large hooks, easily killed, etc. Middle game there are many mines and people tend to just play trench warfare with mines and toss rather than direct hooking. So, should items be remade? If so, what type of changes need to be done? Maybe the items should be made so they are less powerful? For example, techies land mine deals only 25% damage now and claws drag % is less.

Another drastic change would be to make all items so they are not permanent. So they are one time usage only, that would make the map more interesting ^^ For example:

Purchase Strygwyr's Claws (3-charge)
When this item is used, your next hook will cause the target to become ruptured and bleed as they are dragged back. You lose the charge if you miss your target.

Purchase Techies Barrel (3-charge)
Allows the placement of land mines.

Purchase Azwraith's Lance (3-charge)
When used, any hook within the next 2 second that hits you will hook an illusion and you become invisible.

You can still upgrade items in another place, and this would affect the purchased charged item. So you buy the Strygwyr's Claws upgrade for say 120 gold, that means the next Strygwyr's Claws charge would be level 2 but still only 3 charges. The level 5 effect would be there at level 5 charge. Although some items will have to be changed to suit this design, such as Richochet Turbine and Azwraith's Lance ultimate. Just an idea I had, what do you think?


Last edited by Siraraz on 02/07/12, 02:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Pudge Wars Item Discussion

Post by Mr_LiSa on 04/05/12, 09:25 pm

For beginning i apologize for my english Sad
The map lategame is very hard to play because of fast and large hooks
Yeah,this can easy fix - just make the up points less(Ex:up "Damage" on 15,not 35;R-15,A-50,S-25 etc ),this take possibility more in earnest concentrated on hook. but not on his "bonuses"
About charges ...now PW has some balance
Its difficult understand .. it different situation when you play with noobs and with pros
If with pro - enemy Tiny Arm of 5 lvl easly controling by saving with hook(remove from one place),enemy mines sometimes can toss,SC .. hm can denide yourself by self mine,on low hp(now little hard - sc powerful)
In game with noobs .. ah no comments ... game would be horrible
Like for me, if take situation with items(not about they dmdg etc)...hm to hard answer(if make big cost - hard to break forth,if ur enemy has, for example, 5lvl SC and easly kill u,but you have 4 lvl SC,and waiting for up,but to much price and need kill enemy.but this unreal you always lose to his ultimate... )
Can just "cut" dmdmdg to all items ... but now items realy help - dnd at time or good kill of enemy by DD item .. problem just at late, when u have 3-4 items.
In my head to spin only idea - to do that certain Pudge(pick on the start) had the propensities to the artefact
Example: SC Pudge - 100 % dmdg from SC item and 100% buying cost, but
Tiny - 60% effect(not throw to 1000 range just 600(60%)),cost price - 140%
Lantern- 50 % effect of dmdg,cost price 110%
Pawz - 70% effect(not + 100 ms(for exemple) just 70)
Barrel Pudge
Barell - 100 % dmdg from mine and 100% cost
claws - 60 % ofdmdg from item.cost price 140
Etc.... This idea need very strong balance
I apologize in advance if some things were not clear on post, I just have a little bit different view on PW, because would like to PW was a command map and not a map of 1 hero.

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Re: Pudge Wars Item Discussion

Post by Siraraz on 05/05/12, 05:08 am

For the hook upgrade figures, if they were to be changed to the following:
Damage: 20
Radius: 10
Range: 125
Speed: 50

It makes a difference of:
Damage: 1125 -> 725 (-33.3%)
Radius: 475 -> 375 (-26.3%)
Area of Effect: 708822 -> 384845 (-45.7%)
Range: 5875 -> 4625 (-21.3%)
Speed: 2550 -> 2050 (-19.6%)


Last edited by Siraraz on 06/05/12, 05:15 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Changed "actual radius" -> "area of effect")
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Re: Pudge Wars Item Discussion

Post by Mr_LiSa on 05/05/12, 08:22 pm

Actual Radius - what is it ?

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Re: Pudge Wars Item Discussion

Post by Siraraz on 06/05/12, 05:15 am

Sorry, I mean "area of effect".

The area is actually:
π×radius2

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Re: Pudge Wars Item Discussion

Post by chapter20 on 04/06/12, 09:23 am

Improve the tertain

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Re: Pudge Wars Item Discussion

Post by Siraraz on 04/06/12, 11:10 am

chapter20 wrote:Improve the tertain

Firstly, welcome to the forums! You will stay and endeavour to remain active forever to this lovely community? Yes? <3?

In regards to your statement; I actually at one stage made Pudge Wars have beach-themed terrain. The grapple posts were palm trees and the map became half water half sand. All pathing remained the same, but I reckon it looked quite weird. I personally think the terrain is quite fine, I like the simplicity, but that's my thoughts. I'm open to any ideas on terrain improvements if they're worthwhile and many agree to it. Feel free to discuss in what ways could there be improvements. Too bland with the lack of environmental models? Too dull with the Lordaeron Summer tileset?
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Re: Pudge Wars Item Discussion

Post by Mr_LiSa on 04/06/12, 09:13 pm

tertain its main "sparkle" PW
P.S. Siraraz yeah mines was strong ... but now its ...
unreal dnd and etc its awfully, the another items now much better that mines(even lantern)

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Re: Pudge Wars Item Discussion

Post by Siraraz on 10/06/12, 12:35 pm

Mr_LiSa wrote:tertain its main "sparkle" PW
P.S. Siraraz yeah mines was strong ... but now its ...
unreal dnd and etc its awfully, the another items now much better that mines(even lantern)

What is dnd anyways?
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Re: Pudge Wars Item Discussion

Post by Mr_LiSa on 11/06/12, 09:25 pm

denied

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Re: Pudge Wars Item Discussion

Post by Siraraz on 14/06/12, 10:25 am

GAH~ Why is balance so hard to achieve? Been trying to make the gameplay late game not as fast and as a result boring and repetitious.
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Re: Pudge Wars Item Discussion

Post by Mr_LiSa on 15/06/12, 08:01 pm

yeap its problem, i thougt its too easy - fix some items and all but actually all most harder

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